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Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Saturday, Jul 18 at 10:06 AM Sat, Jul 18, 09 at 10:06:55 EDT Everybody contact your local congressman and tell them you want a public option. When a patent of a particular drug expires drug companies make a few adjustments and patent it as a new drug when in fact it is basically the same drug. If this loophole is covered then there is a lot of savings for Medicare and elderly who rely on prescription drugs.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: ck5 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Saturday, Jul 18 at 10:15 AM Sat, Jul 18, 09 at 10:15:22 EDT (In reply to polarbears1) WTF!?

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: justbeingnosie Please login to reply to this message. Posted Saturday, Jul 18 at 5:32 PM Sat, Jul 18, 09 at 05:32:17 EDT (In reply to ck5) Why would you say (WTF) to a suggestion like the one above. It sounds good to me. Just wondering, do you have any suggestions that might help to improve the current health care system and our goverments deficit?

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: joshmus Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 20 at 10:57 AM Mon, Jul 20, 09 at 10:57:28 EDT (In reply to justbeingnosie) I'm curious how you think implementing a nationalized health care system will "improve" our government's deficit? I may not have all the answers to health care reform but I will tell you that the answer is not taking away private competition. Although Obama is not pushing for a single payer system, his plan in essence does just that. Why would any company who is keeping an eye on their bottom line provide insurance to its employees when they can get it so much cheaper from the government? The answer is they wouldn't. How can we as United States citizens possibly expect the outcome of a nationalized health care system to be positive? They have practically bankrupted Social Security, Medicare expenses are through the roof and the government is raises taxes during a recession. Are you aware of any private companies that, instead of cutting costs and laying off employees, would rather just raise prices and continue on that same path? The simple answer is no. Why should the government keep selling a product that no one wants, at a price that is too high? If Obama pushes out private industry, think auto industry and banking industry, than competition will forever die and so will the "American Dream". I don't know about you but I want innovation to flourish in this country. A nationalized health care system will cripple innovation.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 20 at 3:46 PM Mon, Jul 20, 09 at 03:46:54 EDT In a free market society more choice means better products for the consumer. That is why a public option is essential for reform. It sill put an end to some of the corrupt ways of insurance companies. Insurance companies add at least 20% to health care costs. The healthcare system needs to be reformed so that more emphasis is placed on the sincere good work of doctors, nurses, and hospitals and zero emphasis on third parties outside of the doctor, patient, nurse, hospital circle.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: justbeingnosie Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 20 at 4:16 PM Mon, Jul 20, 09 at 04:16:00 EDT (In reply to joshmus) You have a lot of good points, but doesn't a president of the United States have the elected responsibility to see that all of its citizens are being taken care of equially. That is the problem with most corprate business in this country, they are more concerned with making a profit. It almost as to me that everybody is pulling in opposit directions. Try doing that to a piece of paper and see what you get in the end. A big mess. United? Yeah, right.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: justbeingnosie Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 20 at 4:22 PM Mon, Jul 20, 09 at 04:22:16 EDT (In reply to justbeingnosie) Oh, another thing. If some of the dieases that are on the rise again are not taken under controll then illnesses may soon become uncurable, affecting even you, and, maybe, even some of you loved ones. Take a homeless man that has to survice out of a garbage can and see what kind of resivor he might be as a carrior of some of these dieases. With out proper medical treatment he will only spread the diease to others, thuse, creating drug resistant illnesses.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: justbeingnosie Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 20 at 4:24 PM Mon, Jul 20, 09 at 04:24:12 EDT (In reply to justbeingnosie) What gain is it when you gain finically and loxe your life, in a case such as that?

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: justbeingnosie Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 20 at 4:24 PM Mon, Jul 20, 09 at 04:24:33 EDT (In reply to justbeingnosie) *Lose*

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Wednesday, Jul 22 at 11:11 AM Wed, Jul 22, 09 at 11:11:50 EDT Healthcare reform is going to be the engine that propels us into an economic prosperity. A medical necessity should not turn into a catastrophic liability. 60% of all bankruptcies are medical related. Many of these people already have insurance. These are facts given by the American Journal of Medicine. Insurance companies are unreliable third parties. A public option is necessary to make current insurance products more honest. Then people can be free to have more disposable income to spend on other things they like. A public option is necessary to make current insurance products more secure. I agree that tax laws should be structured so that there are personal incentives in choosing one's own healthcare needs. Medicare & Medicaid costs can also be reduced if that same principle is applied. Anyone familiar with Medicare knows that there is no current personal incentive to not take the free programs that are ineffective and wasteful.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Jul 23 at 9:15 PM Thu, Jul 23, 09 at 09:15:25 EDT My sister is studying to be a doctor and she has friends who are doctors that say it is a hassle to get payments from insurances. It is time to finish what was started 61 years ago.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Jul 23 at 9:20 PM Thu, Jul 23, 09 at 09:20:32 EDT By the way my sister said she wouldn't mind paying a bit more in taxes. It's just another form of charity except one doesn't get publicly awarded for it.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Jul 23 at 9:39 PM Thu, Jul 23, 09 at 09:39:05 EDT I think the Senate should take a vote and see if there is a majority who want to keep going until it is finished.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Jul 23 at 9:40 PM Thu, Jul 23, 09 at 09:40:34 EDT Instead of the response of what's the rush, it should be what's taking so long?

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Jul 23 at 9:42 PM Thu, Jul 23, 09 at 09:42:21 EDT Both doctors and patients have decided they want better options.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Jul 23 at 11:26 PM Thu, Jul 23, 09 at 11:26:46 EDT The people voted overwhelmingly for healthcare reform. It is time for Congress to honor that promise.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: ck5 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Jul 23 at 11:53 PM Thu, Jul 23, 09 at 11:53:37 EDT (In reply to polarbears1) There's some serious chit going on here.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Friday, Jul 24 at 1:52 PM Fri, Jul 24, 09 at 01:52:53 EDT Third party insurance companies are unreliable in covering patient's bills and are difficult in paying doctors. A committee needs to reevaluate programs that do not deal with life threating issues in Medicaid for the disabled,low income, and Medicare for the elderly, low income, millionaires, billionaires.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: ck5 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Friday, Jul 24 at 8:27 PM Fri, Jul 24, 09 at 08:27:49 EDT I can't breathe.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: holyschist Please login to reply to this message. Posted Sunday, Jul 26 at 5:41 PM Sun, Jul 26, 09 at 05:41:40 EDT >In a free market society more choice means better >products for the consumer. That is why a public >option is essential for reform. It sill put an >end to some of the corrupt ways of insurance >companies. Insurance companies add at least 20% >to health care costs. The healthcare system needs >to be reformed so that more emphasis is placed on >the sincere good work of doctors, nurses, and >hospitals and zero emphasis on third parties >outside of the doctor, patient, nurse, hospital >circle. (In reply to polarbears1) I don't disagree with your sentiments, however it seems you have a few contradictions. "Public option", meaning a national health plan option, is not included in a free market, by definition. "Zero emphasis on third parties outside of the doctor, patient, nurse, hospital circle" - I also wish we could have our doctor's focused on medicine, when all you would have to do was to pay the Doc and thank him for his time. But as participants in our economy today, with billions of patients, "the third parties" like medical/hospital industry, with insurance, pharma and the actual business processes are what enable our hard-working medical professionals to focus on their work. I'm not and don't claim to be a professional in this area or to have any expertise... however, it seems to me that instead of more direct competition as your "public option" suggests, a few incentives should be made for them to change their operations to be more efficient (something I've heard the publicized plan includes).

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Faith2grace Please login to reply to this message. Posted Sunday, Jul 26 at 9:01 PM Sun, Jul 26, 09 at 09:01:55 EDT Health care reform sounds like a great ideal. However, the way Obama has presented it, it is a disaster. Other countries do not ration health care the way he wants to. Imagine your mom at the age of 55 being diagnosed with breast cancer and knowing this is a treatable cancer, the government decides she is not going to get care. I am a doctor, I worked in the industry for 20 years. Mr Obama's plan is NOT the plan that will help us. Mr. Obama's plan is to kill off the old. Please note, he will NOT put himslef on the health care plan nor will congress or senators. They will continue with their elite plan. The plan that allows them to get whatever care they desire. You really need to read the fine print of this proposal. Universal care yes, Mr. Obama's plan. NO!!! Do not just listen to the big picture, read to be sure what you are supporting and voting for. The plan is laden with many other issues that will destroy research, jobs and lives.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: ck5 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 27 at 12:33 AM Mon, Jul 27, 09 at 12:33:21 EDT (In reply to Faith2grace) Have you been watching "Logan's Run" again? Tsk. Tsk.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 27 at 8:33 AM Mon, Jul 27, 09 at 08:33:21 EDT Imagine your mom at the >age of 55 being diagnosed with breast cancer and >knowing this is a treatable cancer, the >government decides she is not going to get care. >I am a doctor... (In reply to Faith2grace) One of several of the benchmarks of health care reform is patient and provider autonomy. Apparently, years and years ago when publicly funded, equal access health care was introduced in Canada, doctors made similar protests, they even went on strike, but all in vain. There was no breach in patient provider autonomy, and there won't be in the US either. I suspect that you are extrapolating insurance company horror stories onto a publicly funded system. A publicly funded health care system would be responsible for improving the population's health in an equitable manner that is democratically accountable. "Killing off the old people", as opposed to the current practice of killing off the poor people, is just goofy. Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Faith2grace Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 27 at 10:51 AM Mon, Jul 27, 09 at 10:51:53 EDT (In reply to polarbears1)I have worked with patients that have the Canada health care coverage. I use to live in Arizona. They came to America to get health care but they could not get the care in Canada. Elderly and medicare have been around for many years. I have also lived in very depressed areas and seen the poor, illegal and others get health care. Also, remember, I did not say NO universal care just not Obama's plan. Obamas plan is terrible.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: IcyCalm Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 27 at 1:01 PM Mon, Jul 27, 09 at 01:01:39 EDT (In reply to Faith2grace) But this is nonsense. I am Canadian, and I don't know anyone, of any age or class, who has gone to the US to get health care. Most of the Canadians I've talked to about the US system think it is a horror story. I've had several conversations with people thinking of moving to the US who basically decided against it because they were terrified of becoming ill in your country.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 27 at 2:57 PM Mon, Jul 27, 09 at 02:57:33 EDT (In reply to IcyCalm) Some Canadians go to the US for "health care", but it's not because health care is not available for them in Canada. Generally, the reasons for going to the US are: -they can't queue jump here simply because they have tons of money; -they are looking for types of cosmetic surgery that aren't covered by the Canadian Health Care Act; -they are looking for quack medicine, such as chelation treatments to cure their diabetes, cancer, arthritis and ringworm, which isn't covered by Health Care; -they are permanent residents or snowbirds living in the US; -Canadians may cross the border for legitimate health care when their local hospitals are backlogged. This is funded by our health care system so the patient doesn't come home with a fistful of bills. There is a reciprocal arrangement with American patients, except the part about the bills. Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Faith2grace Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Jul 27 at 5:19 PM Mon, Jul 27, 09 at 05:19:54 EDT (In reply to buttercup)This is my experience. I am glad you and your friends are happy with the system but there are those who are not and have not received care they needed when they needed it. Being in the US we only saw the ones that were unhappy. Hospitals being backlogged is a HUGE issue. Waiting 6 months for a surgery when you are in pain is a big deal when people have to go to work and earn a paycheck. These are not insurance company horror stories they are stories from a real practice. The Wyden-Bennett plan is now starting to get attention. Much better than Obama's and does not affect the deficit.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Jul 28 at 10:22 AM Tue, Jul 28, 09 at 10:22:49 EDT Hospitals being backlogged is a >HUGE issue. Waiting 6 months for a surgery when >you are in pain is a big deal when people have to >go to work and earn a paycheck. (In reply to Faith2grace) Indeed it is a huge issue - the most pressing problem in our health care system, especially in Ontario. We went through too many years with insufficient investment into expanding the infrastructure of our hospitals. It was a lack of foresight that is biting us in the butt now. Americans who are opposed to universal health care cite examples of Canadians receiving health care in the US as an indication that our public health care system doesn't work. Are they right? The central goal of our health care system is that everyone has equal access to prepaid health services. No one has to put up with bad knees, but no one gets to buy a place at the head of the line. When the line up is too long, arrangements can be made to have the surgery done in the US. It speeds the process, reduces the line, gives the patient the care they need and it's paid through our health care system. It looks to me as though the central goal of universal access to health care at no cost to the patient is being maintained. Of course, if we denied health care to 10% of our population we wouldn't have lineups. When the US puts into effect a universal health care system, you may find yourselves with the same problem of waits and queues, and we will find ourselves without the backup use of your hospitals. Our health care system is publicly owned and publicly accountable. We are finally awake and investing into the infrastructure with huge new hospitals, new medical schools, and new strategies to deal with wait times. Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Faith2grace Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Jul 28 at 10:40 AM Tue, Jul 28, 09 at 10:40:08 EDT (In reply to buttercup)So glad to hear about the infrastructure investments. That will make a big difference. How is the effort to recruit physician's and nurses? That is the other issue. There always seems to be a shortage, especially in a universal system. In England, they have had a hard time keeping physicians. People in England are paying their stipend for the care but the system is having major stress because people from other countries go to England and they get care and they are not paying into the system. When everyone is accountable and participating, it is a much better scenario. Nice chatting with you.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Jul 28 at 10:43 AM Tue, Jul 28, 09 at 10:43:57 EDT The Wyden-Bennett plan is >now starting to get attention. Much better than >Obama's and does not affect the deficit. (In reply to Faith2grace) I'm not sure that I see much difference between the two plans. Please enlighten me. It's hard to get accurate information in these parts. The biggest problem that I see in both plans is that they are modelled after current insurance contracts. Neither one have no paperwork for the patients, nor do they include standardized benefits, and both include high deductible options. This would allow insurers to hand pick the enrolment of healthy/wealthy people and deter enrolment of those who are unhealthy. That kind of option doesn't pool the risk. You can see where that will go. Furthermore, if there are various plans with different levels of coverage and different deductibles, then the those with low or moderate incomes will be forced to choose plans with high deductibles, just so they can afford the plan. You can see where that will go. But, I don't think that these problems will remain unresolved. Once the American people decide what their health care goals will be, the final plan will be tweeked until it works. I'm certain that you will finalise a wonderful plan. The big problem for now is getting a public option in place. I'm worried that if people turn down Obama's plan that it will be interpreted as an indication that health care reform is not on the agenda of the American people. Do the Democrats have the determination to resolve this? Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Jul 28 at 11:26 AM Tue, Jul 28, 09 at 11:26:16 EDT How is the effort to recruit >physician's and nurses? That is the other issue. (In reply to Faith2grace) Yes, that is the other issue. I'm staring to see changes in the way this is addressed. In the past, we looked to 'recruit' doctors and nurses - the finished product. Our immigration laws were designed to encourage the immigration of doctors and nurses - most of whom are driving taxi in Toronto and Montreal. The immigration laws brought them here, but the College of Physicians and Surgeons has licensing requirements that are nearly impossible for foreign doctors to meet. That is being reevaluated. Many of the reasons for the shortage of physicians can be attributed to the College. Regulations are more and more demanding so that doctors spend 50% of their time documenting their cases. Surely this is a tremendous waste of physicians' time and for what reason?? Protection from lawsuit. If we could fix this waste of time, then it would go a long way toward eliminating the doctor shortage. There is no shortage of students who apply to medical school. Only one out of one hundred applicants were accepted at our newest medical school. But there have been changes made in the way students are selected for medical school in an attempt to filter out those who intend to leave the region, province, or country upon graduation. We've expanded the use of nurse practitioners, midwives, drop in clinics, public health options, home care ... I could go on forever ... this is a pet topic with me, but I have to work. Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: phys_lab Please login to reply to this message. Posted Wednesday, Jul 29 at 9:49 AM Wed, Jul 29, 09 at 09:49:34 EDT (In reply to Faith2grace) >Being in the US we only saw the ones that >were unhappy. Hospitals being backlogged is a >HUGE issue. I've been meaning to ask: What are the common procedures Canadians are having done in the US? I know sometimes people go south to get certain kinds of tests done faster, but it's all pretty anecdotal.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: miamistudent87 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Friday, Jul 31 at 1:37 PM Fri, Jul 31, 09 at 01:37:10 EDT (In reply to polarbears1) Insurance companies are a joke. A mirage if you will. You pay your monthly premiums and then you still get screwed when you need a dime from them. If anyone believes that private insurance companies are a good thing try asking a homeowner in New Orleans about homeowner's insurance. There are 50 million Americans without health insurance, 4 of them being in my immediate family. Hardworking individuals that just can't afford it. Could you think of something better for are taxes to be allocated to? Well I can think of one thing that is not better, spending billions policing a nation full of religious extremists.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: snowflake* Please login to reply to this message. Posted Friday, Jul 31 at 2:31 PM Fri, Jul 31, 09 at 02:31:13 EDT (In reply to miamistudent87) Rock on! Theoretically, the insurance companies will no longer have excuse to charge incredible premiums on auto insurance and workman's comp since bodily injury costs should be absorbed by a national health care plan. With all the insurance premiums I have paid on my vehicles - I could buy three new vehicles.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Aug 3 at 11:51 PM Mon, Aug 3, 09 at 11:51:20 EDT Some banks seem to think that the profit is theirs but when they make a mistake on their risky bets that it becomes everyone else's problem. No I don't think so. That's your problem.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: ck5 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Aug 4 at 12:10 AM Tue, Aug 4, 09 at 12:10:10 EDT (In reply to polarbears1) I feel a gurgle coming on.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Aug 6 at 1:40 PM Thu, Aug 6, 09 at 01:40:11 EDT Medical experts outside of politics state that the system is not functioning properly. Insurance companies are not being honest in covering the patients and paying the doctors and hospitals for their services. The medical experts advocate a single payer system but a national publicly funded insurance is the next best thing. The health system needs to be reformed so that patients are directly paying the doctors and hospitals for their services. Third parties need to be weeded out. The system needs to be reformed so that the taxes are not subsidized to third parties who sit miles away from the patients and all they do is scheme on how to cheat the patient and the doctor. That will save billions in Medicare. Corporations and individuals who hide their accounts need to be honest about paying their fair share of taxes. That will add another several billion dollars and the health reform can be fully paid for to include a national public insurance. Those groups in town halls whose only intention is to disrupt and shout should be asked to calm down. We need to investigate whether they have been bribed. After they calm down then they can have a civilized discussion on how the health system can be improved.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Aug 6 at 2:01 PM Thu, Aug 6, 09 at 02:01:48 EDT For some reason people at townhalls seem content to pay a lot to insurance companies who are unreliable. My sister prefers a national public insurance. She is in her mid twenties and she had to pay a lot for insurance even though the company also contributed. Those benefits are associated with her job. The insurance had limited coverage so she had to pay out of pocket costs even though she paid a lot for insurance.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Aug 13 at 2:44 PM Thu, Aug 13, 09 at 02:44:10 EDT Who is this Lewin group that uses scare tactics to scare people into thinking it's a government take over of the healthcare more specifically the insurance industry??? The Lewin study was funded by United Health Insurance group who was sued by doctors and hospitals for refusing to pay for doctors services. I think they don't want another honest government run insurance in the market. Looks like United Health Insurance will have to figure out how to operate honestly.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: sd22 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Saturday, Aug 15 at 7:58 AM Sat, Aug 15, 09 at 07:58:30 EDT >Other countries do not ration health >care the way he wants to. 1) Please state where/when/how you concluded that Obama "wants to ration health care." 2) Health care is rationed regardless. There is not, and never will be, an infinite supply of medical care to go around. There is never going to be public payment for a million-dollar cure for a common wart, even if it were the only treatment that worked. The only question is HOW is it rationed? Today, it is rationed according to whether you're lucky enough to be able to afford it. >Imagine your mom at the >age of 55 being diagnosed with breast cancer and >knowing this is a treatable cancer, the >government decides she is not going to get care. Why in the world do you fear that "the government" might decide that? There'd be political hell to pay for that kind of policy. >I am a doctor, I worked in the industry for 20 >years. Mr Obama's plan is NOT the plan that will >help us. Mr. Obama's plan is to kill off the old. Absolute, utter bull****. You've been listening to (or are one of) the bat**** crazies (or cynical bastards) who fabricated the "death panel" lie. You may be a doctor (though I hope to God you're not MY doctor), but you just lost whatever credibility you might have otherwise gained by pointing that out. >Please note, he will NOT put himslef on the >health care plan nor will congress or senators. >They will continue with their elite plan. The >plan that allows them to get whatever care they >desire. You really need to read the fine print of >this proposal. WHICH proposal? Obama, unfortunately, didn't create a proposal. He turned the problem over to Congress and said, "come up with something." The special interests have been spending $1.5 million per day on fighting anything sensible -- and fabricating malicious rumors about "death panels" -- ever since. Never in my lifetime has it been clearer to me who the health industry is looking out for. It's not me. (In reply to Faith2grace)

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: phys_lab Please login to reply to this message. Posted Saturday, Aug 15 at 7:09 PM Sat, Aug 15, 09 at 07:09:09 EDT (In reply to sd22) (FYI I like your responses, but wanted to add a bit to some of them.) 2) Health care is >rationed regardless. There is not, and never >will be, an infinite supply of medical care to go >around. There is never going to be public >payment for a million-dollar cure for a common >wart, even if it were the only treatment that >worked. The only question is HOW is it rationed? >Today, it is rationed according to whether >you're lucky enough to be able to afford >it. Thanks for making this point. At least here in Canada, the government making that decision means it's the same for everyone. >>Imagine your mom at the >>age of 55 >>being diagnosed with breast cancer and >>knowing >>this is a treatable cancer, the >>government >>decides she is not going to get care. I can't imagine WHAT country this guy has heard operates this way. Certainly not here. >Why in >the world do you fear that "the government" >might decide that? There'd be political hell to >pay for that kind of policy. Exactly. >>I am a >>doctor, I worked in the industry for 20 >>years. >>Mr Obama's plan is NOT the plan that will >>help >>us. Mr. Obama's plan is to kill off the >>old. >Absolute, utter bull****. You've been >listening to (or are one of) the bat**** crazies >(or cynical bastards) who fabricated the "death >panel" lie. Again, where the heck did he hear about this kind of thing??? Not in any county I've heard of. (Maybe he watched Logan's Run letely.) >You may be a doctor (though I >hope to God you're not MY doctor), but you just >lost whatever credibility you might have >otherwise gained by pointing that >out. >>Please note, he will NOT put himslef on >>the >>health care plan nor will congress or >>senators. >>They will continue with their elite >>plan. The >>plan that allows them to get >>whatever care they >>desire. Holy Cow! Where can people sign up for the "whatever care you desire" plan? Space shuttle rides to allow zero-g recovery from injuries, etc. Must be nice. Probably from the same company that offers the "fairy godmother" pension plan. Seriously, our system north of the border isn't perfect but the totally whacked out comments of some people in the US (like the supposed "doctor" here) are mind-bogglingly ridiculous.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: KEYSFISH Please login to reply to this message. Posted Sunday, Aug 30 at 12:14 PM Sun, Aug 30, 09 at 12:14:35 EDT Sounds like an answer to a Miss America Pageant question. READ the WHOLE healthscare reform bill!(In reply to polarbears1)

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Friday, Sep 4 at 3:47 PM Fri, Sep 4, 09 at 03:47:37 EDT Senator Kennedy the brother of President John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy, Eunice Kennedy Shriver are respected and admired around the world. The health bill should be named in honor of Edward M. Kennedy who devoted much of his public service to improving healthcare. I think that is a great idea for Joe Kennedy to take his uncle's seat and continue his ideas. Many people would like to see another Kennedy in Congress. President Obama is continuing the Kennedy tradition.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: polarbears1 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Friday, Sep 4 at 3:49 PM Fri, Sep 4, 09 at 03:49:46 EDT Public option is essential for true healthcare reform. The insurance industry is a monopoly. Healthcare is too important to leave to insurance beaurocrats. This insurance idea doesn't make any sense. My sister paid double digit thousands of dollars to insurance and she still had to pay out of pocket costs for some things.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: 642 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Saturday, Sep 5 at 10:16 AM Sat, Sep 5, 09 at 10:16:43 EDT (In reply to buttercup) Perhaps a few facts are in order: .100% of Canadians have health care, some pay premiums (Alberta), some do not (Manitoba); 47 million Americans have no insurance and insurance companies decide what is covered, not doctors. .Canada pays 10.2% of GDP for health care; America pays $1 in 6 ie. 17.4% (don't hold me to accuracy on the decimals. .Canada has better outcomes across the board than does U.S. (eg. infant mortality, life expectancy etc.) .Canada's system is no great shakes-ranked 30th in the world, but the US is below us. .single pay saves huge $$. .unlike the States, Canadians pick the Dr. of their choice. Perfect? No way. Wait lists are real, rationing exists, hallway medicine is real. Still, should one's financial future be at risk b/c of illness? Should one die for want of mere money in any civilized society? I think not.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: IcyCalm Please login to reply to this message. Posted Saturday, Sep 5 at 11:42 AM Sat, Sep 5, 09 at 11:42:41 EDT (In reply to 642) Alberta residents don't pay premiums anymore. I don't know if any province does premiums now.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: snowflake* Please login to reply to this message. Posted Saturday, Sep 5 at 4:42 PM Sat, Sep 5, 09 at 04:42:34 EDT >(In reply to 642) Alberta residents don't pay >premiums anymore. I don't know if any province >does premiums now. (In reply to IcyCalm) Okay, I probably sound ignorant but could you elaborate on this? Why do only some Canadians pay premiums. That doesn't sound fair. ps. Hi Icy!

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: kmarshall_005 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Saturday, Sep 5 at 10:52 PM Sat, Sep 5, 09 at 10:52:02 EDT >Perhaps a few facts are in order: > 100% of Canadians have health care > 47 million Americans have no insurance Insurance does not equal care. Millions of Americans choose not to buy insurance in preference to paying for care as it is needed. > insurance companies decide what is covered, not doctors True. Some innovation outpaces coverage. But what is not covered may still be attained. Contrast to Canada, where uncovered care is unavailable care. > Canada pays 10.2% of GDP for health care > America pays $1 in 6 ie. 17.4% True. Some of the most expensive and cutting edge medicine is unavailable to Canadians by choice of their govt. What is available is rationed to keep costs down. > Canada has better outcomes across the board than does U.S. (eg. infant mortality, > life expectancy etc.) Bull. Stating it is one thing. Proving it is another. > Canada's system is no great shakes-ranked 30th in the world, but the US is below us. Bull. What is your source? What are the standards they judge by. > unlike the States, Canadians pick the Dr. of their choice. Completely false. I can choose any doctor I want. > should one's financial future be at risk b/c of illness? YES! Get some perspective and some priorities. If all you care about is your bottom line then I suppose you will want everyone else to pay for your medical care. > Should one die for want of mere money in any civilized society? I think not. "Should?" yeah, probably. "mere money" is the basis of judging a persons worth to society. They can trade that worth for health care. A responsible adult should not desire to trade other people's worth. It's immoral.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: cypriana Please login to reply to this message. Posted Sunday, Sep 6 at 5:38 AM Sun, Sep 6, 09 at 05:38:11 EDT (In reply to kmarshall_005) For one, I don't see why Canadians are even posting on United States Health Care Reform as it isn't their tax dollars and it isn't about them. Secondly, while there are many benefits to a government health care system it is not all rosey. Government Health Care should be provided for those in need not enforced across the page. Thirdly, I have had health care with many different private companies and have always been happy with my service with them as well as with my doctor's office in processing my claims. I prefer to be in control and make my own choices on my health and the health of my children.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Sunday, Sep 6 at 5:19 PM Sun, Sep 6, 09 at 05:19:17 EDT For one, I don't >see why Canadians are even posting on United >States Health Care Reform as it isn't their tax >dollars and it isn't about them. 45 million Americans don't have health care coverage. Canadians consider this to be a humanitarian crisis. These people include our friends and family members. >I prefer to be in control and make my own >choices on my health and the health of my >children. Does this mean that you support equal access, non-discriminatory, universal health care in the US? (In reply to cypriana)

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Sunday, Sep 6 at 5:24 PM Sun, Sep 6, 09 at 05:24:49 EDT For one, I don't >see why Canadians are even posting on United >States Health Care Reform as it isn't their tax >dollars and it isn't about them. (In reply to cypriana) And ... another reason why some Canadians are eager to see Health Care Reform in the US, is that as long as the US has a system of health care that is inferior to ours, we will not significantly reform our own system. "It could be like it is in the US, eh?" Every Canadian in the room shudders in horror and the conversation ends. Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Sunday, Sep 6 at 5:34 PM Sun, Sep 6, 09 at 05:34:54 EDT What is available is rationed to >keep costs down. "Rationed"? Good heavens. This is the second time that I've heard that Canadian health care is "rationed" - both times it came from American sources. It is complete balderdash! >Stating it is one thing. Proving it is >s another. It's not difficult to prove. Records on things like infant death and life expectancy are readily available. I suppose you >will want everyone else to pay for your medical >care. Health care costs are paid through our income tax. Everyone contributes according to their ability to do so. It's about as fair as you get. Buttercup (In reply to kmarshall_005)

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Mely† Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Sep 8 at 1:07 AM Tue, Sep 8, 09 at 01:07:59 EDT > "It could be like it is >in the US, eh?" Every Canadian in the room >shudders in horror and the conversation ends. > Buttercup (In reply to buttercup) Yes, EXACTLY. Yet Americans think we have death squads that kill old people!

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: kmarshall_005 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Sep 8 at 11:52 AM Tue, Sep 8, 09 at 11:52:43 EDT >What is available is rationed to >keep costs >down. "Rationed"? Good heavens. This is the >second time that I've heard that Canadian health >care is "rationed" - both times it came from >American sources. It is complete >balderdash! You really should read a thread before responding. If you check above you will see 642 said before I did that health care is rationed. Of course, he's your buddy so you don't want to argue with him. ROFLMSAO

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: kmarshall_005 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Sep 8 at 12:07 PM Tue, Sep 8, 09 at 12:07:43 EDT >> I suppose you will want everyone else to pay for your medical care. > Health care costs are paid through our income tax. Everyone contributes according to their ability > to do so. It's about as fair as you get. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!" Uh yeah....who said that?

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: JohnBTimberlake Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Oct 27 at 12:13 AM Tue, Oct 27, 09 at 12:13:21 EDT (In reply to polarbears1) "In a free market society more choice means better products for the consumer. That is why a public option is essential for reform." Yes, competition does regulate the market and provide choice and competition. But every fool knows that when you insert a monopoly into the market you REMOVE "choice and competition". Ever heard the term, "crowding out"? If not, re-take economics 101. You might as well tell me that we need to donate billions of dollars of bailout money to failing monster auto corporations in order to promote choice and competition. Wait ... wait a second. We did. And lo and behold, the big auto companies got bigger and the small disappeared (goodbye Saturn, goodbye Dodge and others). Honestly, who do you think you're fooling. Personally I have a live-and-let-live point of view and feel that if people want to have a collective health care initiative or engage in other such collectivist ventures that they should have every right to do so. What they don?t have the right to do is to force me to participate if I don?t want to. As with all tyranny, the problem with socialism is the individual who refuses to follow lock-step with the rest of the herd. I am he, and in case you didn't notice the "no soliciting" sign outside, we don't want any.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: ck5 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Oct 27 at 12:24 AM Tue, Oct 27, 09 at 12:24:13 EDT (In reply to JohnBTimberlake) Why, yes.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: JohnBTimberlake Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Oct 27 at 12:38 AM Tue, Oct 27, 09 at 12:38:15 EDT Just wanted to mention something regarding the whole debate going on about Canadian care right now. There are several points that haven't been made that are relevant to the argument. 1. U.S. media dominates the world, while the American citizens rarely sees media from the rest of the world, everyone else is bombarded with ours. Canadians, Europeans and Brits all see our sensationalist media and believe it word for word, not knowing that it blows things out of proportion no matter which way it is biased, and on top of that it is almost all politically biased to one side or the other. In other words, they've been drinking our kool-aid for a long time. 2. Canada's system really isn't that bad. Yes there are those who end up dying while waiting in line and there are those who are forced to come to the US to get care before they die, but they are a small minority, comparable to the small minority of those in the US who are unable to get adequate care under our current system. The question really is do you want to sacrifice quality for quantity? And if so, when you compare the US to the other systems in the world are they really able to offer health care to more people? Or is it just more convenient giving citizens the illusion that their health-care is free? 3. Insidious motivations must be considered. The situation is being pushed as an emergency, even though our system in truth has only gotten better from the moment of it's inception, all at once with the inauguration of a collectivist president, we are in danger of a future economic collapse and in danger of major health calamities if we don't pass this right NOW. When you step back and look at the reality that this is going to cost the country billions of dollars during the deepest recession we've had in 30 years, consider the fact that our new president less than 1 year into his term has already borrowed or printed nearly 2 trillion dollars, more debt than has ever been taken out in history and more than our last (several presidents, really) president borrowed/printed during 8 years in office, and then once again listen to the argument, that we face economic collapse if we don't do it now? The fact is that it's a bald faced lie and that if we are facing an economic collapse, this is going to drag us closer to the brink. On top of that, it will be the biggest reduction of freedom this country has ever seen. Now - why, oh why would anyone want to do such a thing?

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: ck5 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Oct 27 at 11:11 AM Tue, Oct 27, 09 at 11:11:33 EDT (In reply to JohnBTimberlake) Why, yes.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: LumberJack Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 4:55 AM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 04:55:45 EST (In reply to Everybody) I am really late to this argument. I am not really going to comment on much except pose a couple of questions for everyone. First, with respect to heath care costs. Our heath care costs always start and end with the Doctor's Pen and prescription. A doctors pen, in its lifetime, spends millions. The system you choose is really irrelevant. The tests your doctor orders, the procedures he recommends, the medications he prescribes, what equipment they need. It is all a derivative of what the doctor writes with that damn pen. We need good Doctors who are knowledgeable and who are not afraid to tell people things they do not want to hear. What we are arguing about is how is the patient to pay for it. Is it subsidized by everyone in a universal health care system or is every person pays for their own care. Or a mixture of both. They both have pros and cons and it is up to a country to really weigh what they are willing to live with and move on from there. Second, the expectation that people are entitled to operations and surgery instantly is ridiculous at best. Do I want to be fixed as fast as possible? Absolutely! Will it happen? It depends where you are and what is the problem. Will I have to wait for a specialist? How common is the problem? Etc, etc, etc. I am sorry to tell everyone on this forum, but you will die someday :D The question again is, how much money are you willing to spend to be able to have a state of the art, facility just waiting for you to do something stupid, or have something unexpected occur. Finally, I hate to say this. However, most of the time we are reaping what we sow. Eating poorly, not exercising, not wearing seat belts, doing things that are probably not the safest things (ie, cellphones constantly by our heads, smoking, obesity, pollution, etc). I have little sympathy for people who have health problems as a result of bad choices and then expect the system to promptly address their problems.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: ck5 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 11:14 AM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 11:14:02 EST (In reply to LumberJack) I see.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 12:00 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 12:00:33 EST (In reply to LumberJack) True, True. But what about your Mom, Dad, or kids. Kids do stupid things all of the time. A drunk driver can run over your Mom, and your Dad could be fishing one day, and lets say a fish lets go of the bait at the boat, and then, the worst case scenario happens - a sinker and hook through your Dads left eye. Is this careless? What if you were not "finacially prepared?" I'm just saying - all of this could happen. A robber could break into your house and shoot you before you shoot him. - then what? - you got the money to pay for that? are you rich? think about it.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 12:02 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 12:02:25 EST (In reply to LumberJack) By the way, your Dad had a couple of beers.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 2:04 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 02:04:45 EST you got the money to pay for that? >are you rich? think about it. (In reply to naldo007) LumberJack is from Alberta. They are so wealthy out there that not only does he have universal, equal access, publicly funded, health care, but the provincial government issues Prosperity Cheques to all its residents every now and then to keep down the surplus. It's kind of like the reverse of what you and I do when we pay our taxes. I'm not kidding, and I'm not making this up. Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 2:06 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 02:06:11 EST (In reply to buttercup) Now that is funny!

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 2:15 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 02:15:02 EST A robber could break into >your house and shoot you before you shoot him. - (In reply to naldo007) Like I said, LJ's from Alberta, so this scenerio wouldn't happen. First of all, there ain't no robbers in Alberta, and even if there was one, no robber is gonna break into anyone's house. They just have to open the door and walk in. Furthermore, the robber isn't gonna shoot anyone. He just says, "May I please have your TV, eh? And your touque too It's friggin' cold out here." Then home owner says, "Heck yeah, take it. I'll get another one with my Prosperity Cheque, eh?" AND ... even if the robber was from 'Away', as in the US, and thought that he needed to wave a gun around, the Albertan is gonna shoot him first every time. Every single Albertan can shoot a nickel out of the air from 200 yards while riding bareback by the time they're five years old. So ... you gonna have to get a better story for LumberJack. ;) Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 2:17 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 02:17:17 EST > Now that is funny! (In reply to naldo007) Heh! I bet you think that I was kidding. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_Bonus Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 2:39 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 02:39:07 EST (In reply to buttercup) WOW!

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 2:42 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 02:42:18 EST (In reply to buttercup) It is too bad that anybody can edit that page. No pun though. I think its true

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: LumberJack Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 3:27 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 03:27:46 EST (In reply to naldo007) Just do a google news search. What a waste of money that was. I was so outraged, I moved to BC

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: LumberJack Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 3:31 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 03:31:24 EST >(In reply to LumberJack) True, True. But what >about your Mom, Dad, or kids. Kids do stupid >things all of the time. A drunk driver can run >over your Mom, and your Dad could be fishing one >day, and lets say a fish lets go of the bait at >the boat, and then, the worst case scenario >happens - a sinker and hook through your Dads >left eye. Is this careless? I am talking about the things you can control. Of course you can have a beer and a cheeseburger. However, if you are 250lbs diabetic and morbidly obese, won't try and lose some weight to control the diseases... then I have less sympathy for someone who gets into an "accident". Accidents happen, that is what healthcare should be there for What if you were not >"finacially prepared?" I'm just saying - all >of this could happen. A robber could break into >your house and shoot you before you shoot him. - >then what? - you got the money to pay for that? >are you rich? think about it. I will just go to Emergency and my health care system will take care of it. Im not worried (In reply to naldo007)

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: LumberJack Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 3:33 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 03:33:22 EST (In reply to buttercup) B/C, you and I both know that most Canadians are too polite to rob people. Most likely I will be burglarized, and I won't have any interaction with them at all. It may have changed since I took my criminology class though. My prof said Canadian Criminals usually lack the nerve

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 3:49 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 03:49:36 EST (In reply to LumberJack) Canadians are to soft eh'. In America, people are more violent?

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 5:29 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 05:29:10 EST (In reply to naldo007) I guess your whole family is perfect. Nobody is overweight, smokes, drinks, uses the cell phone, gets an STD,etc. And your neighborhood is perfect too. WOW! I gotta move and find some new family members and friens that I would have no sympathy for. Then I could be just like you. YAAAAAAeeeeHH!

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 2 at 10:03 PM Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 10:03:48 EST Canadians are to soft >eh'. In America, people are more violent? (In reply to naldo007) Yeah. Apparently. Check out this chart to see where Canada ranks and where the US ranks on the soft to violent scale. The Peaceful Nations Symposium is going on in Washington as I type. http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/rankings/2009/ Do you have any theories to explain the difference? Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: LumberJack Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Nov 3 at 1:34 AM Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 01:34:27 EST (In reply to buttercup) Culture. We are much more passive and docile. I think we generally don't go looking for trouble, even when committing crimes. We like to be as quiet as possible. As long as the person isn't on drugs, drunk, fighting about hockey, or talking Canadian politics. We are generally pretty calm.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Nov 3 at 8:57 AM Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 08:57:07 EST As long as the person isn't on >drugs, drunk, fighting about hockey, or talking >Canadian politics ... (In reply to LumberJack) Well that pretty well describes most of us most of the time. ;)

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Nov 3 at 9:02 AM Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 09:02:56 EST (In reply to buttercup) Canada is to cold to rob anyone. Nobody wants to go outside and no one wants to live there. Altleast I don't. If Canada had as much people per acre as US. The "crime" numbers might be the same. USA is the melting pot and of course their will be problems, but I still love my country and will have a gun for the rest of my life. Feel bad for the Canadians when America migrates to Canada, eh.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Nov 3 at 9:37 AM Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 09:37:51 EST If Canada >had as much people per acre as US. The "crime" >numbers might be the same. USA is the melting >pot and of course their will be problems, but I >still love my country and will have a gun for the >rest of my life. Feel bad for the Canadians when >America migrates to Canada, eh. (In reply to naldo007) Awh, we love our American immigrants. We probably have the same population per acre as the US. You see, we're all packed in within one kilometre of the border. The rest of Canada is a huge wasteland where no one lives except moose and bears. That's because before there was satellite TV, we had to be near the border in order to get any reception. Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: guest28 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Nov 3 at 9:43 AM Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 09:43:56 EST >(In reply to buttercup) Culture. We are much >more passive and docile. I think we generally >don't go looking for trouble, even when >committing crimes. We like to be as quiet as >possible. As long as the person isn't on >drugs, drunk, fighting about hockey, or talking >Canadian politics. We are generally pretty calm. (In reply to LumberJack) Some things just slip through the statistical cracks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Nov 3 at 2:53 PM Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 02:53:38 EST (In reply to LumberJack) "However, if you are 250lbs diabetic and morbidly obese" http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoasthomes/story.html?id=11ecdaa2-e3c9-4f23-ac09-36cdde5ea200&p=1 Don't be like this ehhhh.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Nov 3 at 3:11 PM Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 03:11:14 EST (In reply to LumberJack) Canada the reefer pioneer http://www.drugpolicy.org/global/drugpolicyby/northamerica/canada/

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Nov 3 at 3:16 PM Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 03:16:45 EST (In reply to LumberJack) ``A lot of high-grade indoor bud is coming from Canada,'' said John Hudson, the director of Flower Therapy, a San Francisco medical marijuana outlet that serves about 900 clients. ``You can buy a pound of prime bud for about $1,800 (U.S.) dollars up there,'' http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1997/02/26/MN27466.DTL&type=printable

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: rolypolyfishhed Please login to reply to this message. Posted Wednesday, Nov 4 at 10:43 AM Wed, Nov 4, 09 at 10:43:43 EST We probably >have the same population per acre as the US. You >see, we're all packed in within one kilometre of >the border. The rest of Canada is a huge >wasteland where no one lives except moose and >bears. That's because before there was satellite >TV, we had to be near the border in order to get >any reception. Buttercup :D (In reply to buttercup)

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Benjamin71 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Friday, Nov 6 at 3:44 AM Fri, Nov 6, 09 at 03:44:27 EST because their focus groups have told them insurance is the concern of Americans. The Dems change their color often to match popular opinion. Obama's success has been built on telling the people what they want to hear. It's a Snake-Oil-Salesman tactic. http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=2145820 http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=2145800

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Sunday, Nov 8 at 9:03 AM Sun, Nov 8, 09 at 09:03:28 EST Pete Sessions - representative for TX-32, a district where 36% (!!!!) of the constituency have no health care insurance, received $1,424,900 in campaign contributions from the health care industry - voted NO. I'm speechless. Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: Sallyhudson123 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Nov 9 at 8:38 PM Mon, Nov 9, 09 at 08:38:23 EST (In reply to Benjamin71) Very true Ben http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=2195168

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: ivorygate Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Dec 21 at 11:35 PM Mon, Dec 21, 09 at 11:35:05 EST If you really want to know what the "reform bill" entails, may I suggest this to you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws7hdwQNJOs Gives a pretty good picture of just how little vaseline we are going to get with this one when we bend over for it. Nice. Happy viewing! FL Professor

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: vman0171 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Monday, Dec 28 at 11:35 PM Mon, Dec 28, 09 at 11:35:55 EST (In reply to polarbears1) Why do we need health care reform. We need insurance reform. They are lobbying for these changes so they have more control ovver what a DR will charge. Doctors would not have outrageous charges if the insurance companies would not demand discounts for your doctor to be able to use your insurance company. Don't be fooled by the words health care reorm when it should be insurance reform.

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: sd24 Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Dec 29 at 12:08 AM Tue, Dec 29, 09 at 12:08:55 EST >Why do we need health >care reform. We need insurance reform. They are We need both. Insurance costs alone don't explain the fact that we pay twice as much for medical care as every other country in the world and yet have have poorer quality care by some measures. Insurance should not be controlled by for-profit businesses. And doctor and hospital charges should not be based on fee-for-service. (In reply to vman0171)

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: buttercup Please login to reply to this message. Posted Tuesday, Dec 29 at 9:22 AM Tue, Dec 29, 09 at 09:22:22 EST Why do we need health >care reform. We need insurance reform. (In reply to vman0171) I agree that the insurance based health cared system is a big problem that needs to be reformed, but I am confident that such reform will come .. eventually. While the current Health Care Reform bill has some major flaws, it does provide the American people with a health care foundation that is a significant move forward - the ideal principle that all American people must have access to health care. That's a HUGE step forward - cause for celebration. Buttercup

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: abasjewel Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Jan 7 at 2:32 PM Thu, Jan 7, 10 at 02:32:55 EST (In reply to joshmus) Totally agree with what everything you said!!

Re: HEALTH CARE REFORM posted by: abasjewel Please login to reply to this message. Posted Thursday, Jan 7 at 2:33 PM Thu, Jan 7, 10 at 02:33:56 EST (In reply to polarbears1)Well said!!

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